Behind the Mic: OpsCast's 100th Episode Celebration

Michael Hartmann: 0:23

Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of OpsCast brought to you by MarketingOps. com powered by the MoPros. I'm your host Michael Hartmann today with a, I guess we could call this a special episode, but it's still another episode. Um, with just the three amigos, we've got Naomi Liu and Mike Rizzo and me all together. I'm going to do it. Say hello. Yep. We're here. We're all together. It's amazing. It is. And these are always fun. Uh, this one is especially, I think, uh, we thought it would be good to kind of do some reflections on the milestone that we just recently hit of getting a hundred episodes published. So, um, we are probably not going to spend a huge amount of time here, but as soon as I say that we'll probably go long, you know, um, but anyway, yeah, so, uh, congratulations y'all. Yeah.

Mike Rizzo: 1:13

It's amazing. Big milestone. It's, it's a huge milestone. Yeah. I wish I had like, I'll actively Google while we pull talk or something.'cause I feel like there's a stat out there that says like, most podcasts don't make it past like three episodes

Michael Hartmann: 1:28

or something like that. Right? It's so, yeah. 10. The 10 is what I remember. I don't remember the details of it, but I was like, getting to 10 is like a huge m. And, um, well, it's funny because I was, um, I was driving around today listening to, uh, one of my, one of the podcasts I like to listen to for economics and it happens to have episode numbers in there, like it, I don't know, 700. And another one I was looking at is 400 and I'm like, we're actually not that far. Like, I mean, 700 is pretty far away, but like 400 is not that far away. And I was like, that's actually, like, I feel pretty good about that even because. Really, truly, truth be like, we could be further along, I think, because 2023 just, for a variety of reasons, right, we just didn't get as much out the door and publish, so.

Mike Rizzo: 2:13

Yeah. Yeah. I, uh, I've been sharing with folks that, you know, ask about the show. Um, you know, we peaked, I think we like hit an all time high. It was actually North of 2, 600 downloads in a month was like our highest peak ever. And, uh, but then I always like come back and I say like, you know, that's not like the norm necessarily. Right. We took a little bit of a break, which, you know, we need to do from time to time. Um, but yeah, we've been, I think. Now that we're sort of back on a fairly regular cadence again, I think we're like 12, 1300 or more

Michael Hartmann: 2:50

like on average. I think we'll get back to that. Yeah.

Mike Rizzo: 2:55

It's cool. I'm excited. I was just pulling up some of these numbers too. Like, yeah, that was, that was about it. It was, uh, I think the Google response immediately from Podcast Statistics and Trends in 2024 says only a hundred and seven, sorry, wow, don't know how to read, only 720, 000 podcasts have more than 10 episodes. There's a, like there was over a million podcasts produced at one point in like 2020 alone. So, you know, very, very low volume of total podcasts out in the world that actually make it past

Michael Hartmann: 3:32

10.

Naomi Liu: 3:34

That's crazy. Geographically, where are most of the listeners coming

Michael Hartmann: 3:37

from? Well, I was just gonna, I was just gonna bring that. I mean, so no big surprise. If you look at countries, the U S is by far the biggest. Um, and then it's, uh, UK, Canada. India and Germany kind of round out the top five and then you go further it's Australia, Spain, France, Ireland. Um, and I think that gets us to, like, 11th. What I, what I thought was interesting, so not only that, like, so one, we're, we're global, which I, like, if I, if you look at it by continent, we actually have downloads happening in every continent except for Antarctica. Um, so there's a goal there. I just don't think they track it. Right. they're using VPNs down there. Yeah. Yeah, they're bouncing. Bouncing around. But I, so do you, Mike, I know you're, you may be looking at this, but do you want to take a, take a guess at the top city? Oh, this surprised me. The top city? Yes. In the us? No, just top city, globally. Top city, globally. It is not a US city. I will give you that clue. Uh.

Mike Rizzo: 4:42

I have a feeling I might remote. Is it Bangalore?

Michael Hartmann: 4:46

Yeah. Bang is it, is that it says Bangalore, but I think that's our Bangalore. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Mike Rizzo: 4:53

Yeah. I was, I had that floating around in my head. Cause I, I remember, uh, cause I think the year before it was actually, uh, Sydney, I think, and so I found that really surprising too. Cause we were like, the top listeners were in Australia. And I was like, bro,

Michael Hartmann: 5:12

wow, that's awesome. And it's all time, right? So, I mean, then you get right after that, it's all U S cities, kind of mostly California, Florida. Virginia. So, yeah, so. Yeah, it sort of

Mike Rizzo: 5:28

holds true to what we've been seeing in the community to like, you know, we are absolutely like, uh, like us, Canada, right? Like, um, predominantly, like, that's where most of our members are coming from in the community in general. But I've noticed like a pretty steep up and to the right climb from both APAC and EMEA like almost equally like they're both like kind of growing, so I don't know if we've like reached some sort of tipping point or Google's finally like showing content to. People in other parts of the world, how that works,

Michael Hartmann: 6:07

but no, so I think, and I think, you know, like we, I know we, we, you know, we've had guests pretty much all over. I don't think we've had anyone in Africa yet. So if you're in Africa and you want to be a guest, like, we'd love to get you on or South America. I don't think we have anyone for South America, but

Mike Rizzo: 6:21

yeah, that'd be super fun. Yeah. I'd love to like hear what's going on there. I'll tell you what, there's a lot of like activity. Um. Happening sort of globally as it relates to marketing operations and marketing technology for sure. Um, but like, my goodness, the amount of like, uh, startups and in the MarTech space, and then some of the practitioners in Tel Aviv specifically has been like, Like, very much on my radar, like they're, I've communicated with at least a dozen or more people, which, you know, probably isn't that impressive to, I guess, when I say it out loud, but like, it is, because like, I didn't know anybody until, up until like the last six or seven months, all of a sudden I met all these people that are doing really cool things over there. So, um, I don't know. I think you can maybe glean at times that there's investments that are happening in startup ecosystems in different parts of the world at different points. And maybe I sort of think that that's what's happening. I wish I knew more people there. I've got to get beyond 12 so I can ask these questions.

Michael Hartmann: 7:30

Maybe we, you know, we need to all work our network, you know, Naomi, you need to start getting on this. Yeah,

Naomi Liu: 7:38

I know. Right. I need to be, I need to be more of a community builder than Mike is. Especially in that area.

Mike Rizzo: 7:48

That's funny. We're all doing, we're all doing our part. I think what matters is that we're not alone.

Michael Hartmann: 7:54

Yeah. No, it's, it's huge. Um, so it's interesting. Also, I think Mike, you already posted about like the top 10 episodes and, and all that. And, um, yeah, I think it's, I was just going back through that a little bit and. You know, I think it's, it's interesting. There's a mix of relatively new stuff and some stuff that's, you know, I've been out for a while. Um, it's fascinating to me that, you know, our episode with, uh, Amy Goldfein continues to stay at the top. I think it's been up there for a while. Maybe the first one we'll hit a thousand downloads of just that episode. It's over 700 at this point, but I think that speaks to like, just for the reminder, right? It's WTF is marketing apps, right? Or something like that. And, um, That I think speaks to just like people still struggle with how to describe what it is they do if they're in marketing ops or want to know what it is. So, um,

Mike Rizzo: 8:51

I wish we could get demographics on that one, like, like by title, right, professional title. Yeah, it's like, wouldn't it be funny if it was like, it was like all CMOs and CFOs and CROs. Like, what is this?

Michael Hartmann: 9:10

Yeah, probably not. But yeah. So, uh, so I'm curious to any, um, so I've been thinking about this a little bit. I'm actually, I think I may write a pod, write a blog post for you, Mike, here about sort of just lessons learned, but like any, like. Either of you have any sort of things that, wow, I didn't expect this as we got into it, or, you know, sort of surprises, either positive, negative, or just surprises in general, no, no sort of judgment on them.

Naomi Liu: 10:48

I think for me, like I, it's not that I didn't think people would. Listen, but I am surprised at how intently people listen and I get a lot of messages on LinkedIn saying, Hey, I just listened to, or even on the slack in the slack group saying, Hey, I just listened to X, Y, Z episode and you mentioned something about this and I, I want to follow up on that and I have to be like, wait. What episode was that? What did we say? And I had to go back and listen and be like, wait, wait a minute. What, what was that? And then I'm like, Oh, okay. Okay. And then we'll have a call and then we'll have this conversation. And yeah, it just made some like really interesting connections from listeners and people who follow along. And, um, you know, I have recurring calls with some of the folks and just where we just, you know, mind share and talk about industry stuff. And it's just been, it's interesting because it's been really great as a connection tool for something that. We just have a conversation about we don't necessarily see who's listening to it, but then maybe six months later, someone will come back and say, Hey, I listened to this episode that you recorded six months ago, and I've just found that to be really. Um, yeah, I, I've just really enjoyed that, right? Especially looking back and sometimes your opinion changes too. Right? And I've had conversations where I'm like, you know, yeah, I did say this, but I actually don't feel that way anymore, you know, and then having that discussion

Mike Rizzo: 12:07

too. That's, that's fascinating. Yeah. Yeah. It's, uh, I mean, naturally, like we learn more, we, we grow, we change, right? Our opinions are going to adjust over time, technology changes, whatever, but, um. Um, I hadn't thought of that angle yet. Like,

Michael Hartmann: 12:23

I'm positive I

Mike Rizzo: 12:25

said something, but I probably don't necessarily agree with

Naomi Liu: 12:29

it. You know, kind of looking back at old photos of when you were in the early 2000s, you're like, Ooh, why did I wear that? Why

Mike Rizzo: 12:35

did I do my hair like that? Yeah, ooh, weird. There's definitely a good photo of me, like, completely bleached blonde hair.

Michael Hartmann: 12:43

Did you have the

Naomi Liu: 12:44

Guy Fieri tips? Did you have the blonde tips? It's

Mike Rizzo: 12:47

tough. Yeah, that's not what this episode is about.

Michael Hartmann: 12:52

It could be, Mike. We never follow a script, so.

Mike Rizzo: 12:56

I know, I know. Yeah, no, it was pretty funny. It was just that time and, you know, everybody was doing their hair all blonde or whatever. I thought it would be a good idea because, like, my eyebrows were dark brown and I was like, oh, maybe I should try to lighten those up. That was a bad idea, folks. Oh,

Naomi Liu: 13:09

we need this photo. It should be the cover photo for this episode.

Mike Rizzo: 13:15

I took it a step further later, but I think by the time I was a freshman, um, I ended up like just bleaching the tips, but I, I made them red. So I had to go bleach blonde first to wash all the color out. And then I colored them red. So my hair was on fire. It was a great look. Wow. Oh my

Michael Hartmann: 13:34

god. That's terrible. Mr. Heatmiser. I'm now emerging myself.

Naomi Liu: 13:39

Hartman's like, Why did you copy my vibe?

Michael Hartmann: 13:41

Right? Exactly. Can you see that? Right?

Naomi Liu: 13:45

You see that?

Michael Hartmann: 13:47

All my tattoos everywhere and

Mike Rizzo: 13:51

I do have a Um, and now lots of people, thanks to Mops Upalooza and the Emi Collective have tattoos all over themselves. Yeah.

Michael Hartmann: 14:01

So how about you, Mike? What's been surprising to you?

Mike Rizzo: 14:06

Yeah, I mean, I think I'll echo a bit of what Naomi said, like it is, um, you know, I think all of us went into this having zero expectation of what the heck to do here. Um, and how it would go, and it's, it's been really quite fascinating to see, um, how much of this particular type of content is consumed, and, and then that, that like, it's a very one way type of communication, right, like, versus, you know, what we're doing in the community, which is super, like, connective, um, and visible, and so we don't know who's listening, and then you do get that playback, where. Suddenly someone sends me an email or a LinkedIn or a DM on Slack on the community and is asking, you know, for more information about a topic we were talking about. I think that that, um, you know, if nothing else, if some, if someone who's like a podcast producer out there listens to this episode, they're going to like pull clips from it and be like, see, I told you podcasting is a good idea. Because like, look at what it could do for you. And, and to like, to that point, though. Um, like, I have learned that this absolutely, I guess that's sort of my takeaway, is really like this is absolutely one of the best ways to meet the people that you potentially want to, like, work with, or just, you know, want to learn from, or whatever. Um, I think, you know, maybe there will be a time where You know, I, I, I would argue some marketers think podcasting is already saturated and everybody does it, but I think the, um, the unique thing about audio as a channel, um, even if we go into video, right, but, but what's unique about all of this is that, um, each of our voices are very unique. Right. And I mean that both in the way that they sound and the things that we say in the way that we think and that means that every show has its own vibe and energy and I, you know, I don't think that that'll necessarily get, um, tired, right? Like, if that were true, then television shows and movies wouldn't work either. Right? Like, because we're not creating content anymore. And so I, I think podcasting is here to stay. Um, Um, and I think for those that want to focus on it as a vehicle for connecting with other businesses or other experts in their field, almost everybody's flattered to come on a podcast, right? Yeah. There's a ton of people that have never been on a show and I love that part. I remember the first time I was on a show, woo, I was so

Michael Hartmann: 16:48

nervous. Absolutely. Yeah. So, so you're hitting on kind of what I think my biggest surprise and it was, it was again, like looking through. The data, which by the way, that's one of my other surprises is how little data we have, right about these. So for people who like, um, like it's really hard to get insights, especially if you publish across multiple, um, multiple platforms, podcast players. But I think for me, I think going into it, if I was going to, if I could think back about what I would have been most concerned about this, having any kind of longevity would have been just having enough people who wanted to be on it. And it's been almost the opposite. When I think about like, we've got a hundred, now a hundred one, a hundred, this is a hundred two episodes, I think, um, there's only been a handful of people have been on more than once, truly, right? And there's, there's probably half a dozen maybe of those, which means. That's a lot of people we've talked to. And sometimes I forget everybody we've talked to. So it was kind of fun going through the list recently. Um, but that's actually absolutely not been the challenge, right? The bigger challenge has been just trying to make the time to get them all on and to have an opportunity to share their knowledge with the rest of the community. And I, and I love having these first timers. We just, we just recorded an episode. It'll be. Coming out shortly, uh, it'll be out before this one with somebody who, first time that he's ever been on a podcast and it was, um, yeah, I, I do feel like we've done a pretty good job of making it easy for those people to, to come in and feel comfortable and not be intimidated by it. Yeah, I

Mike Rizzo: 18:23

agree. I think, um, podcasting has a different flavor on every single show, as I just got done illustrating or saying, and, um, I think our show, I mean, I'm proud of what you've done with the show, Michael. Like you've, you've made it what you feel is the right approach. And I totally am aligned. And I, I think I speak for Naomi. She feels very similar, obviously, because we're still doing it together, but I think our show makes it comfortable. Like it's, I like the, um. Lack of structure and just a dialogue because it lets people speak freely and you know, it's okay We might take it out if you tell us to but you know for our listeners if you haven't heard us say it before We don't edit the show. Don't know if you can tell but We don't edit it at all So, yeah, I think that's that's what that's like our a bit of our secret sauce.

Naomi Liu: 19:22

It's kind of fun I think in the future, hopefully that You know, the comment that you made, Michael, about how we don't technically have a ton of insights or data on listeners and just like podcast downloads and things like that, um, in the future, I hope that will change, right? Because I hope that with platforms out there that are becoming and are super popular, Substack being one of them, right? Ghosts, things like that. I think it's really important for content creators to have access and keep their own data. Right, and so hopefully these podcasting platforms take notes. and make some changes that allow us to be, you know, cause it's motivating, right? When you see, hey, a rise in your listeners and you want to then create more content that resonates with them, but data drives some of these decisions that we make, right? So, you know, it's just, hopefully those things will change. Yeah,

Michael Hartmann: 20:18

no, it, so the whole tech stack for doing podcasts reminds me a little bit, Mike, you and I were talking just the other day about event tech, right? Cause there's like lots of players and there's not a lot of consistency and they all do different little pieces of it. And so to, to put together, you know, if you're doing events, right. It's just really hard to sort of cobble together the, the technology pieces that you need to enable it. So, um, I'm, I'm with you, Naomi, I do hope that there's some, some changes that give us better insights. Cause it's the one, the one thing I wish we got more of, and I'm not necessarily looking for people to just start cramming us with, um, feedback, but it, but as we don't get much direct feedback, I mean, uh, when we do, it's generally been positive. I think there's one episode where I got like, Hey, that was interesting, but probably not the best. Thing and it was one that like it was fun. It was an experimental one. It's the one that we did early on relatively. Oh The audio the audio branding. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, which I thought was very interesting. I thought

Mike Rizzo: 21:23

it was super interesting Hey, that's no shame on you though. Yeah, no,

Michael Hartmann: 21:27

no, no, that's totally okay So that's like I but that's like it was useful to get that feedback, right? Totally. Yeah.

Mike Rizzo: 21:33

Yeah

Naomi Liu: 21:34

Yeah, it might also be the way that people consume podcasts though, right? Like, I don't know about you, but I, I'm consuming it when I'm at the gym or on a driving somewhere or running errands. After I listen to it, I then kind of like file it away and I'm not necessarily, Oh, I'm gonna send a note to X person, right? It's like, you're not directly in front of your computer. It might just be something that. It's just the, it's just the nature of the

Michael Hartmann: 21:58

medium, right? Yeah, no, it's a, it's a nice passive way of learning, I guess. If, if, if hopefully we are providing stuff that's helping people learn. But, um, I, I, I would like, so I don't want to dissuade people from giving us feedback. I do, it would be great to get feedback. Yeah, I

Mike Rizzo: 22:15

totally agree. So maybe that's something that these tech platforms could take too, right? Like, like, gosh, if I were to, you know, I think I've said this before, maybe to both of you, I don't remember, but like, I feel like if we band together, like a number of mark marketing ops professionals, we would probably create like a way better marketing automation platform. That's been, has ever been created. Right. Practitioners that have like seen every like dark corner. I feel like it's similar in this podcast thing. Like if I could come up with a bunch of different ways to make this a little bit better for the creator. I mean, and then on the, with all this AI stuff that's happening now, I imagine like your podcast. player that you're streaming through, uh, queuing up a prompt to you that says, Hey, like categorically speaking for Opscast, you, you tend to listen to this, this, and this type of category, like the most, like, do you want to write, you know, the show, the show hosts feedback about these two categories so that. You know, or these other ones that you're not listening to to share why That wouldn't be rocket science for for these companies to do right like they could gpt Like what would the theme of this episode be and then you know present that information back to you anyway i'm getting off my Random ai topic now I don't know. So it's fun. I love it. I I do think You know, to, uh, what you were saying a moment ago, Naomi, about the stats of, like, that motivate you, right? Just generally marketing, that's true. But, um, for, like, part of our downfall, which is also a secret sauce, is that we aren't, like, structured. And, and then, like, that's also, like, equally, like, a bit of a downfall for us. Because, like, categorically speaking, we don't really have, like, a theme or something that we're pursuing or measuring against either. Like We could look at all these episodes and surmise roughly what the, the trend is as to what people like the most. But like, it's going to take some sort of AI for me to do it. Because they're not broken out in any category right now and I don't want to sit there and manually figure that out. So, that is a little bit of our downfall too.

Naomi Liu: 24:32

It would be interesting to like, dump it, yeah, dump it into ChatGPT and like, figure out what the, yeah, that would be super interesting. I, I use, speaking of ChatGPT, I do have to say, I have, I used it for something I thought was quite ingenious over the holidays. I used it to create a seating chart. Really? For a dinner. I, I, I put in everybody's name, a little bit about them. These people didn't know each other, right? A little bit about them. And I said, you know. In a round table, where should these people sit so that they would have really great conversations with the people next to them and directly across from them based on common interests. And these are, this is what they do. This is their hobbies. And it made me like the seating chart, which is amazing. And then I told everyone afterwards, I'm like, I use chat to be T they were like blown away. That's

Michael Hartmann: 25:22

fantastic. That's. That's

Mike Rizzo: 25:23

such a good use of AI, like, yeah, yeah,

Naomi Liu: 25:27

it was wild. It was pretty, it was pretty, and then like, it got the more, obviously the more detailed, um, I was with everybody's, you know, little bio blurb that I put in the, and I also said like, give me a reason why they should sit next, like, tell me why you think they should sit next to each other. Yeah.

Michael Hartmann: 25:44

Right.

Mike Rizzo: 25:45

That's so cool. I

Michael Hartmann: 25:46

love that stuff. I could just see Naomi doing that, right?

Mike Rizzo: 25:52

I can't, um, I GPT so much stuff, so that's, I have not done any like GPT for my personal life. It's all

Michael Hartmann: 26:04

just work. Mostly I've done it just for randomly, random, stupid, fun stuff. Writing rap songs. Yeah. Um, well, I, I do like, I think, I do think that part of the special sauce is just though Mike, you brought it up, right. That we all three bring different perspectives, but I actually think that, I don't know about you, but I like to think of you guys as friends and like more than just. You know, colleagues on this. I mean, I think we've we've gotten to know each other pretty well. And we've, you know, I think that comes out in how we interact, even when we disagree, which we do quite often, I think so. Yeah. Thank you. I don't agree with

Mike Rizzo: 26:46

that. Just kidding. I agree. Thank you. I think it's been a ton of fun and, um, yeah, for the, for the listeners out there, like, please send feedback and come on the show. I do think we're going to have some repeat guests here soon because it's been a while since we've had some of some folks on that have some new, new things that they should be sharing with our listeners. So, you know, I might be knocking on your door at some point here soon. Naomi theme. Uh, we're thinking about doing a theme. And so we're gonna we're gonna plant the seed now with anyone who actually listens to this whole episode. And

Michael Hartmann: 27:26

now we'll know who's actually listening the whole way. Yeah,

Mike Rizzo: 27:31

the theme is like. We're going to like pull together some go to market, like the trends and go to market strategies right now, like community led, partner led, uh, people led. There's a, there's a few of these. PLG, the whole bit. PLG, all of that stuff. Uh, and then, and then get them to share a little bit about like how they're working with marketing ops and rev ops practitioners to implement these go to market strategies. Um, so that we can better learn like what they're about and how to support them and that kind of stuff. So what do you think? I think that's great.

Naomi Liu: 28:04

Yeah, sounds good. I, I mean, I, I, it's topics that I'm interested in too, right? So lots of that, um, more attribution stuff, analytics reporting, I think for me. Like, if we were to do topics around, um, uh, or themes, I guess, around, uh, managing expectations and, and how do you present things to the SLT? So a hot topic, and I believe there's a, um, a webinar or a attribution webinar. Has that, has that happened already? Or is it happening?

Mike Rizzo: 28:39

We, we had one just the other day, and then there's another one coming up. Yeah.

Naomi Liu: 28:44

So I think for me, it's not so much like that stuff is great, but then what happens after? What do you do with this information? How do you then disseminate it to the people that actually need to see it and how do you explain it in a way that makes sense to them? I think those kinds of things would be great too. Right. Yeah. So it's like kind of stepping a bit outside of our marketing ops bubble and how do we Effectively communicate to the people that need this information, but don't necessarily work in our space.

Mike Rizzo: 29:15

Oh man, this harks, this harks back to, uh, summer camp, huh?

Michael Hartmann: 29:20

Yes. That's exactly what I was thinking. No, I, so I think it was kind of a, maybe it's a tangential to that, but, um, I think Mikey and I talked about it, even it'll come out in this podcast just prior to this, but, um, There's been a lot because we're around the new year, right? People are actively trying to figure out what are the right measurements for marketing ops. And, you know, I think there's, um, but I don't think that's something that we've really covered at all, really, which is kind of a surprise. Um, so I do think there's something there. Um, and Nomi, you can't miss that one because I think you've got some great. Things that you do. Um, so yeah, that one, I mean, I think that's generally that, like, how do you know if you're being effective and then, and then tie that with, how do you communicate that to the rest of the organization? Yeah,

Mike Rizzo: 30:09

yeah, I totally agree. I think that'd be a ton of fun. It's, and, uh, with Mobs of Palooza 2024, um, we're actually gonna, like, bring back some of that subject matter, so, um, I'm excited about that piece too, cause like, I was just on with Jess Cow, uh, two, three hours ago. Today, um, Naomi and that exact subject matter was, uh, the topic of discussion for Mobs of Palooza. Either a presentation, um, or a course and more likely a course. So bringing some of that workshop stuff that we did with her back at summer camp.

Michael Hartmann: 30:48

Yeah, I think that was, to me, that was one of the highlights of the summer camp from 22 was just really getting that really like immediate feedback about how I thought I would present it where I thought I was doing a pretty good job of translating it to. CMO speak and then being shot down. He was very humbling. This is what I heard. Well, yeah, yeah,

Mike Rizzo: 31:17

yeah. I, uh. I totally agree. I think, I mean, and for, for all the listeners, um, the, if you're a pro member of our community, that session from Summer Camp is available to you. Nothing will replace being there in person, of course, but If you do want to go consume that content, that entire, I think it was like, what, two, three hours of content or something, um, of a session, uh, that entire like engagement with just cow and Nancy, who was the CMO guest in that room on that day, um, is available to all of our paid members on the website and you can go consume that. But yeah, I think it's one of the hardest things to do is. Try to translate that kind of stuff. And so, yeah, I think it'd be a good idea for us to talk more about that on the show too. All

Michael Hartmann: 32:08

right.

Mike Rizzo: 32:09

Look at that. We thought we wouldn't do a

Michael Hartmann: 32:10

whole episode. I know. Look at that, but we did. Well, thanks y'all. I really, um, y'all mean a lot to me and, uh, um, I couldn't think of anybody else I'd rather be doing this with. So appreciate you. Yeah.

Mike Rizzo: 32:26

Same here. Back at you both. Anyway,

Michael Hartmann: 32:32

seriously, all right, these guys are weird. Yes, we are in the best kind of way. Um, all right. Anything else before we wrap it up? I don't think so.

Mike Rizzo: 32:51

Ping us anytime

Michael Hartmann: 32:52

listeners. Yes, send us your feedback. We're still looking for more guests. We've got a number of people who I still owe follow ups on. So just know that it may not be super fast, but we're working on it anyway. Thanks again, everyone for your support, getting us to a hundred episodes and beyond, and we look forward to more until next time. Bye. Bye. Bye.